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lyrical

Remove Linker's autolink in BG

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Linkers in BG are autolinked. Why? This completely ruins the fun of Hwiz, a popular class. Hwiz is killing themselves more than anyone else. If the other team has two linkers, that seems fair, but for a single linker to be linked all the time...

Either make Hwiz autolink too or remove linker autolink.

It's a big problem right now since it's hard for wizards to have fun and it makes linker a highly optimal badge farmer (which, it's pretty good at to begin with).

Edited by lyrical
  • Like 2

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+1

it's ridiculous a lv.90 linker with no gear can shut down an entire class. literally 60% of my hwiz's deaths are from reflect and sometimes the sprite glitches and i can't even tell when people have kaizel. either remove soul linker link or give hwiz link as well.

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Now that we have autopots this won't really be too much of a problem.

You're asking to completely shut down the viability of linkers because you don't use/want to use level 1 LoV on your opponent stack?

Besides, isn't this a problem only when there's a lack of linkers in BG? When BG is filled with linkers, at times 2/3 per team, why is this a problem?

-1 unless you wanna find common ground and conditionals for autolinking linkers

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You're asking to completely shut down the viability of linkers 

No, I'm saying they should need their support class to be viable, like everyone else.

That or if you wanna go down this road then give my creator auto bragi all the time so its viable

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5 minutes ago, lyrical said:

No, I'm saying they should need their support class to be viable, like everyone else.

That or if you wanna go down this road then give my creator auto bragi all the time so its viable

Autobragi is not the same as linking a linker, you also need to remember the impact of Bragi  on Creos and HWs. i.e being able to wipe half a team in less than 10 seconds.

But, I get what you mean, that's why i went with "Conditionals" for auto-linking linkers.

Like for example, linkers get auto-linked if there is another linker in team. If this is implemented, it's just a QoL change, not a meta change.

Edited by V for Vash

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1 minute ago, V for Vash said:

Now that we have autopots this won't really be too much of a problem.

You're asking to completely shut down the viability of linkers because you don't use/want to use level 1 LoV on your opponent stack?

Besides, isn't this a problem only when there's a lack of linkers in BG? When BG is filled with linkers, at times 2/3 per team, why is this a problem?

-1 unless you wanna find common ground and conditionals for autolinking linkers

reflect ohkos you potting doesn't help (also the current autopot is broken). also, concerning common ground and conditionals like i said at least give hwiz link as well.

if you lov lv.1 and knock kaizel off enemy stack the slinker kaizels one person and you die from reflect from your next cast.

Quote

When BG is filled with linkers, at times 2/3 per team, why is this a problem?

when bg is filled with 2/3 per team then you won't need to bg therapist to link you ???

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In that case just autolink HWs, it's a huge problem for them in an environment with completely random matchmaking

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Just now, lyrical said:

In that case just autolink HWs, it's a huge problem for them in an environment with completely random matchmaking

It'd be punishing on linkers' "offensive" (reflective lel) capabilities then, since we're looking for other common ground.

Linking every class isn't the answer. Conditionals like I mentioned would be the right way forward. 

Maybe conditional linking of HWs could be done (viable?) - If there is no linker in team, then HW gets auto-link

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5 minutes ago, iludb said:

reflect ohkos you potting doesn't help (also the current autopot is broken). also, concerning common ground and conditionals like i said at least give hwiz link as well.

if you lov lv.1 and knock kaizel off enemy stack the slinker kaizels one person and you die from reflect from your next cast.

when bg is filled with 2/3 per team then you won't need to bg therapist to link you ???

IIRC, the current autopots were introduced yesterday. Why not wait until today's BG to test that out?

And yes, I'm the soul linker you probably die often to lel

 

And sure, I feel it's ok to not link linkers if there's more than one linker per team

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6 minutes ago, V for Vash said:

It'd be punishing on linkers' "offensive" (reflective lel) capabilities then, since we're looking for other common ground.

Linking every class isn't the answer. Conditionals like I mentioned would be the right way forward. 

Maybe conditional linking of HWs could be done (viable?) - If there is no linker in team, then HW gets auto-link

c'mon dude. i used to main slinker and hit 3000 elo on a server with it. you(r whole team) still reflects earth spike scroll from 2x ele sword sinx/biochems and stalkers. you not only are basically invincible (you can literally tank 3 bragi'd biochems with tumbling and kaupe) but you can almost make any member of your team just as invincible as long as you're not being targeted. NOT ONLY THAT but you add utility to nearly every job in the game and can even get slow grace for your team clown if you're missing a gypsy. any sort of "offensive capabilities" you have are just icing on the cake. oh yeah and you can't be dispelled.

i've said this months ago before this server was even a thought. i didn't even play hwiz back when i said this.

why not just give soul linker and hwiz both auto-link no matter what's on the team instead of complicating it? that's just more to script.

linkerproblems.png

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that's just more to script.

this is a very important point. Whatever solution we go with needs to be hella simple.

Hwiz having autolink shouldn't seem unfair if you get autolink as a linker...

Have you ever played hwiz with a linker around?

It's the only thing in this game that makes me want to altf4, it's not fun, it's just frustrating and feels stupid, the more damage you do, the more you die. You get punished for AoE'ing or hitting ungeared people. There is nothing dumber than this.

But fine, I can live with it, it's fine when it's working as intended and requires two linkers, the whole idea behind double linker is that they are a bit redundant to each other with spirit buffs, but expand their toolkit if there happen to be two.

Why do you get free extra buffs/tools, I don't get it

Edited by lyrical

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10 minutes ago, lyrical said:

Hwiz having autolink shouldn't seem unfair if you get autolink as a linker...

Have you ever played hwiz with a linker around?

It's the only thing in this game that makes me want to altf4, it's not fun, it's just frustrating and feels stupid, the more damage you do, the more you die. You get punished for AoE'ing or hitting ungeared people. There is nothing dumber than this.

But fine, I can live with it, it's fine when it's working as intended and requires two linkers, the whole idea behind double linker is that they are a bit redundant to each other with spirit buffs, but expand their toolkit if there happen to be two.

Why do you get free extra buffs/tools, I don't get it

Yes I have, I've played tons of HW against linkers and usually, lv 1 LoV with bragi just eradicates kaupe AND kaite. (LoV hits faster than MS, thereby breaking Kaite before the MS hits). And usually there's someone Devo'ing the HW.

The conditional that I mentioned should be fair because it's more of a QoL change (don't need to take a high level SL link skill, can invest in other links/kaahi).

20 minutes ago, iludb said:

you not only are basically invincible (you can literally tank 3 bragi'd biochems with tumbling and kaupe) but you can almost make any member of your team just as invincible as long as you're not being targeted. NOT ONLY THAT but you add utility to nearly every job in the game and can even get slow grace for your team clown if you're missing a gypsy. any sort of "offensive capabilities" you have are just icing on the cake. oh yeah and you can't be dispelled.

I disagree that you're invincible with SL (unless you're a god at it). You can't for sure tank 3 bragi'd creos with tumbling and kaupe. 1 usually takes you down with like the fourth hit or so. That's usually 2 or 3 seconds to death.

However, I agree that the "offensive capability" is just an icing on the cake and I'm willing to part with it. I don't believe it's unfair or broken though as long as you can find a reasonable way to deal with it. Which is why I mentioned either of two conditionals:

1. Link linkers at the BG healer ONLY if there are 2 linkers in the team

2. Link HWs at the BG healer ONLY if there isn't a linker in the team

Fair enough?

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1 minute ago, V for Vash said:

1. Link linkers at the BG healer ONLY if there are 2 linkers in the team

2. Link HWs at the BG healer ONLY if there isn't a linker in the team

Fair enough?

No... this still doesn't make sense to me.

So now linkers get free points in their skill build, for no apparent reason, and somehow that's just a "QoL change?" Why don't other classes get QoL changes for free skill points too?

2 sounds fine, but only if linkers stay autolinked, if you remove autolink then there's no reason to link hwiz either, so I don't full understand the motivation.

 

 

Also I don't want to derail this very much but your fantasy world where the hwiz has bragi and devo is nice and all, but half the time you're playing against a prof with no bragi and your only solution is to suicide yourself to your own JTs, what then?

 

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1 hour ago, V for Vash said:

Yes I have, I've played tons of HW against linkers and usually, lv 1 LoV with bragi just eradicates kaupe AND kaite. (LoV hits faster than MS, thereby breaking Kaite before the MS hits). And usually there's someone Devo'ing the HW.

The conditional that I mentioned should be fair because it's more of a QoL change (don't need to take a high level SL link skill, can invest in other links/kaahi).

I disagree that you're invincible with SL (unless you're a god at it). You can't for sure tank 3 bragi'd creos with tumbling and kaupe. 1 usually takes you down with like the fourth hit or so. That's usually 2 or 3 seconds to death.

However, I agree that the "offensive capability" is just an icing on the cake and I'm willing to part with it. I don't believe it's unfair or broken though as long as you can find a reasonable way to deal with it. Which is why I mentioned either of two conditionals:

1. Link linkers at the BG healer ONLY if there are 2 linkers in the team

2. Link HWs at the BG healer ONLY if there isn't a linker in the team

Fair enough?

reflect damage isn't absorbed by devo dude. are you sure you've played hwiz? also i COMPLETELY forgot you save points on your skill tree as well. all you have to do is kaite ONE player after lov and the hwiz is taking damage or dead if they try and amp sg (dead with meteor storm too if you spam kaite and the hwiz is under bragi). hell most of the time when i die it's after i do ALL OF THE DIRTY WORK OF CLEARING KAITE WITH LOV AND LOOKING AT EVERY SPRITE ON SCREEN LIKE RAIN MAN just to cast and then have someone still kaited who was lagging behind offscreen walk into my cast.

even when hwiz has link a kaited and kauped player is still blocking 3 hits. you're asking for a complicated script instead of a simple solution and i think it's because you're betting on the fact it's so complicated it'd never be implemented. stop being unreasonable i'm not asking for your class to be nerfed i'm asking for a job to be viable and not hard countered by another job that already brings so much to the table.

Edited by iludb

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While we're at it, maybe we should also make Whitesmith's buffs undispelable so it can be viable in bg and not worry about pesky HW's quagmire or agi down or dispell?
This thread is kinda silly.

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47 minutes ago, Jaran25 said:

While we're at it, maybe we should also make Whitesmith's buffs undispelable so it can be viable in bg and not worry about pesky HW's quagmire or agi down or dispell?
This thread is kinda silly.

Nobody is asking for KaizelKaite (lol it's late) to be removed or less effective.

Just even the playing field.

Why do linkers get a free link is the basic question here. And if they HAVE to have a free link, which is odd to begin with, then we have to start stacking on these weird nonsensical changes because of how imbalanced it is, so now we start talking about wizard autolinks too.

Imo just delete the whole autolink thing and everything is solved.

Edited by lyrical

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1 hour ago, iludb said:

reflect damage isn't absorbed by devo dude. are you sure you've played hwiz? also i COMPLETELY forgot you save points on your skill tree as well. all you have to do is kaite ONE player after lov and the hwiz is taking damage or dead if they try and amp sg (dead with meteor storm too if you spam kaite and the hwiz is under bragi). hell most of the time when i die it's after i do ALL OF THE DIRTY WORK OF CLEARING KAITE WITH LOV AND LOOKING AT EVERY SPRITE ON SCREEN LIKE RAIN MAN just to cast and then have someone still kaited who was lagging behind offscreen walk into my cast.

even when hwiz has link a kaited and kauped player is still blocking 3 hits. you're asking for a complicated script instead of a simple solution and i think it's because you're betting on the fact it's so complicated it'd never be implemented. stop being unreasonable i'm not asking for your class to be nerfed i'm asking for a job to be viable and not hard countered by another job that already brings so much to the table.

Whoops, I completely forgot about the devo part. Damn, I'm rusty with RO, been 3 years.

Anyhow, I'm not being unreasonable here. HWs are essential in BG and will always be. Linkers being linked is not gonna be significant if we often see more than 10v10 in BG (which we do right now). As I'd stated before I've never seen BGs without at least a linker in each team, which means every typical (7v7 and upwards?) BG that you see WILL have a linker to link you.  

Also, read below:

HW:

Soul links to Wizards and High Wizards, allowing them to cast all Gemstone requiring Skills without using them up (however, it still requires the Wizard to have at least one of the respective Gemstone) for the skill's duration.
When the Wizard has a "Crystal Fragment" while under this skill's effect, the item will be used, and any spells that were reflected back to you via Kaite will simply disappear instead of hitting you.

Wiz/HW (or Mage) Skills which need gemstone:

Ganbantein

Gravitation Field

Safety Wall

Stone Curse

SL:

Soul links to other Soul Linkers (you can not link to yourself), allowing them to use "Ka- Type" skills on any other class, for the skill's duration.

(https://ratemyserver.net/index.php?page=skill_db&jid=4049)

While one class needs link to be viable, the other class benefits a LOT from it. Perhaps THAT'S the reason why HWs are not auto-linked in BG?

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Lmao at soul linker main defending custom bullshit ITT. Obviously it should be removed and soul linkers should only be getting linked if there's a second one on their team, how is this even a question.

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6 hours ago, lyrical said:

Linkers in BG are autolinked. Why? This completely ruins the fun of Hwiz, a popular class. Hwiz is killing themselves more than anyone else. If the other team has two linkers, that seems fair, but for a single linker to be linked all the time...

Either make Hwiz autolink too or remove linker autolink.

It's a big problem right now since it's hard for wizards to have fun and it makes linker a highly optimal badge farmer (which, it's pretty good at to begin with).

+1, it's only fair to either have everyone get linkbuff or take it away from soul linkers, and I say this as a SL main. That said, having read the replies above, I'd be inclined with the latter (in bold), for balance's sake.

Edited by Folder

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remove this shit before you stifle bg, in low scale, this is unbearable, a single ungeared linker can null out most of an opposistions team

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I think this is the first time I've seen people crying about Linkers, fun stuff. 

Give the linkers autolink when they join and if they die they lose it cause they bad. 🙂

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2 hours ago, FaZe Mongraal said:

-1 ?? This is 2019 people, WHAT U MEAN?

you literally have FaZe in your name and worship a RMT guild and brought absolutely no valuable input to the thread except "it's 2019 bro".

  • Haha 1

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I'm pretty neutral on this because there used to be a heated debate on this back then and there were pretty much good arguments as to why and as to why not adding link to linkers is a good idea a few servers back.

On the side of the linkers getting their link on bg therapist, linker users feel completely useless other than linking core classes like hw and stalkers for gvg and it made them feel like a leecher who just gets free badges which explains why linkers were the bg population during the first week since they're one of the easiest to level up for bg.

As for the ones against it, it would be HWs and stalkers that get annoyed by magic reflect, champs and sinxs that just zergs on a kaupe'd target getting them killed in the process.

For the magic reflect side they suggested spells no longer staying active upon death cause respawning without buffs is a bitch to which I agree considering most of the bg players right now are either leechers or leechers of leechers. As for zerging champs and sinxs who didnt get to FO or throwing knives at their target well...you'd be seeing "git good" replies for them.

Long story short, it's mostly about topics on the magic reflect shutting down HWs easily to which I don't quite agree with. Yes I agree magic reflect can be a bitch but unlike Kaupe, Kaite is pretty visible so even without a bragi one should know it's a bad idea to land an aoe on a stack like that other than a lvl 1 LoV to hopefully hitlock some of them upon taking out their Kaites and yes I know it turns them quite useless in the process. On the plus side, reflect can be toned down a bit on a competitive bg with clowns and teammates around. 

For my side though, I know how powerful a high wiz can be if left unchecked by enemy dlp & fs profs. They can be offensive or defensive depending on the clash. They pretty much initiate the start of the clash along with creos, stalkers and fs profs and provide hitlocks for chasing stragglers.

Anyway, I'm okay with either of the outcome. It either benefits the class I play or I just stay with my current gameplay. Although I do agree with most of the reasons stated above. This used to be a debate catering only 5-20 vs 5-20 clashes but with the current amount of leechers with their linkers.  I say we have another go at this and this time I'll be siding with both. 

 

Edited by Blitz
Just so I can say how porings r da best of da best #porings4lyf

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